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May 3, 2019

This episode’s guests are Natalie and Stuart McIntosh.

Stuart and Natalie (also known as Jai Ma), created the documentary “Serving Love”, an excellent movie sharing the stories of people who have experienced the profound health benefits of following a high raw plant based lifestyle, including overcoming cancer, illness and depression, whilst also developing new loving and healthy relationships with people, nature and life itself. The movie also features interviews with Dr Michael Klaper, Dr Malcolm Mackay, philanthropist Philip Wollen, ultramarathoners Janette Murray-Wakelin and Alan Murray, and Yoko from Shoko Iku, as well as Natalie and Stuart.

After watching the documentary, I simply had to interview them for the podcast. I was warmly welcomed to their beautiful farm in Beaconsfield, Victoria, where apart from our conversation I was able to see the diverse array of organic fruit and vegetables they grow there.

Given the movie is mostly about raw wholefood plant-based eating, you will likely expect that to be the predominant topic. Yet early in this podcast Natalie courageously tells us the story of her depression and how she suffered with it, her attempted suicide, her feeling that this was actually a call to God for help and her subsequent journey from depression to wellness.

Natalie and Stuart then go on to speak about:

  • The empowering shift Natalie noticed after seeking help and spiritual guidance
  • How her depression recurred despite this
  • What Stuart noticed about how the antidepressants were affecting Natalie
  • The efforts they took to help Natalie discontinue her antidepressants once her mental health came under control
  • Natalie’s subsequent call to nature and to eating fresh real food
  • How this progressed to both Stuart and Natalie deciding not to eat animal foods
  • Some of the people who have guided them both spiritually
  • Their realization many of us live unconsciously through our psychological minds
  • The difficulties with believing we are in control of what is happening
  • The benefits of letting go and simply being aware to become more fulfilled
  • The benefits of seeing life as a Guru itself
  • How the right spiritual teacher is someone you resonate with
  • How they came to make their documentary Serving Love
  • Some advice about eating more raw food as part of a wholefood plant-based diet

Listening to the podcast may be confronting for you. If you feel you need help, please contact your national 24-hour crisis counseling service. Australian listeners can go to or

After the interview, I tell you how I have been going with some of the recent challenges I've mentioned on the show, and I also discuss a couple of scientific papers you might value hearing about or even reading yourself, particularly if you have or know someone with depression.

Please enjoy listening to Natalie and Stuart; two of the most kind, caring and loving beings I’ve ever met.

Live well, feel well, do well.

Andrew Davies



About the New Normal Project podcast: The podcast is aimed to inspire and empower you to live your most plant-based, body-moving and mind-focused lifestyle, by hearing about healthy lifestyle pillars such as nutrition, exercise, mindfulness, sleep, connection and purpose. I hope you’ll glean insights to help you make choices about your habits so you become more healthy, fulfilled and conscious.



Links to people, organisations & other resources mentioned:

Raw Food For Life website

“Serving Love” documentary

“Serving Love” documentary trailer

Raw Food For Life on Facebook

Raw Food For Life on Instagram

Dr Michael Klaper

Dr Malcolm Mackay

Philip Wollen

Janette Murray-Wakelin and Alan Murray

Blog post about Natalie’s journey from depression to wellness


Beyond Blue

MJB seminars

Louise Hay

Fully Raw Kristina


Rupert Spira

Russell Brand video

Jim Carrey video 1

Jim Carrey video 2

Jim Carrey video 3

Alan Watts

Dr Joe Dispenza

Raw – the Documentary

Yoko from Shoko Iku

Shoko Iku

Doctors For Nutrition

Earth Choice

Doctors For Nutrition newsletter

Blog post about Natalie’s mother Kaye Dowel’s cancer journey

Adam Guthrie

I Feel Good Magazine

Episode 38 of New Normal Project podcast with Michael Klaper

Episode 46 of New Normal Project podcast with Andy Ramage

Episode 51 of New Normal Project podcast with Alan Desmond

Scientific paper in Lancet on efficacy and acceptability of antidepressant medications (click on the free full text link on this page to read the full paper)

Blog post commentary about this scientific paper

Scientific paper in Annals of Family Medicine on discontinuation of antidepressant medications (click on the free full text link on this page to read the full paper)

New Normal Project podcast

New Normal Project website

New Normal Project on Facebook

New Normal Project on Instagram: @newnormalproject

New Normal Project on Twitter: @newnormalproj

Email Andrew Davies

Andrew Davies on Instagram: @andrewdavies66

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